At The Counter #20: Course Correcting America’s Biggest Publisher

Welcome to At The Counter, where features editor Tony Thornley chats with Greg Gage of Salt Lake City’s Black Cat Comics about the retailer side of the comics industry. This week, we talk about the changes that are coming with Marvel Comics, the American comics industry’s biggest publisher (who’s also been in a downward spiral for the last few years). We also catch up a little about his most recent con vendor experience, and the lessons learned in a live event.

Tony Thornley: Greg, welcome back! How did the convention go for you?

Greg Gage: Exhausting, but great! It was definitely a successful con, but at the end of the weekend, I was pretty much fully wiped out.

Tony: Last year was the first time you’d had a booth in a few years, and you said you learned a few lessons from that. How were you able to apply those lessons?

Greg: Mainly what people want. That can change quickly, but with me listening to some younger voices, my daughter and a few employees here at the store, I feel like I got a pretty good bead on what I needed to bring. Certain mangas, certain books relating to movies and TV shows I don’t really know about. Having another generation of input is a great help. Also, the help my wife gave with designing and putting together the booth space. That’s an eye from a non comic collector looking in and helping make the booth friendly to new collectors and readers.

Tony: Besides the limited space, what’s the biggest difference between running at the con and at the store?

Greg: I’d say it’s a lot of people that aren’t comic fans. It’s funny how much things have changed over the years. A few decades ago, everyone was at a con for comics. Maybe a few wrestlers or geek related actors would come to sign, but most of them had actually written comics. Nowadays, it’s just the opposite. Most people seem to come for the celebrities, and comics are a secondary thought, if that. I had so many people ask me if we were a new shop, or just online, or if they still made comics. It was a little surprising, but I look at it as gaining new customers and readers, which is always good for the industry as a whole.

Tony: I was a bit stunned to see a kind of universal shift with the comic book creators there. While I’ve seen creators charge for signatures before, it was usually stuff like “first three free” or “personalized sigs free” or even only charging for CGC or keys. This time though, it was almost exclusively $10 and up per signature. What might be driving this change?

Greg: Probably a combination of factors. I know a lot of writers and artists aren’t getting paid anywhere near what they used to by the big guns, and if they’ve shifted to smaller publishers, the money’s just not there. And when you look at a Marvel or DC creator, those books they’re selling are books they’ve bought. The days of getting boxes of comp books from them are over. So there’s a lot more financial consideration to factor in as well. Some blame has to go to the spec market, too. If a creator signs their name to a book for free, and someone flips that books for $30, how is that fair? Not that I’m condoning charging across the board, but it seems to play a role, for sure. But at the end of the day, I think it’s more of a, “I can do it, so why shouldn’t I?” 

Tony: Do you think this shift in speculation is sustainable or will it be a bubble that will pop?

Greg: You know what? I’ve stopped trying to predict what’s going to happen in the comics industry. My last correct prediction was that Diamond was going away by spring of 2025, and, well, they did. Ever since then, the comic world, and the world in general has been so unpredictable that I don’t even attempt it. I will say that the spec market ebbs and flows like nothing I’ve ever seen. Just when I think it’s dead and gone, an Absolute Batman hits and throws it all into chaos again.

Tony: So in the last year and change in the column, you and I have talked a lot about how Marvel is dropping the ball in one way or another. We really didn’t talk much about the upcoming administration change over there because there just isn’t much to talk about yet.

But that shifted this weekend at New York Comic Con as new Marvel EIC Stephen Wacker started talking about changes he’s implementing alongside Marvel’s new leadership (shout out to our friends at AiPT Comics for the write-up). First of all, what do you think of Wacker’s transparency here?

Greg: I like my transparency to be transparent. What I mean by that is I’m hoping it’s not lip service and there’s nothing else behind what he said. I like it, but I’m nervous. I’ve kind of heard it before from Marvel, and things just get worse. I can say I do like a lot of the ideas being put forth, and am cautiously optimistic that with a new editor in chief, we’ll get some new and better policies being instituted. Not sure if Disney will actually let it happen, but I like that it’s at least being discussed.

Tony: A couple things he talked about here really resonated with me. First of all, unless the title has an X or a Spider on the cover, it seems like every Marvel series — even stuff like Iron Man and Fantastic Four — has had an executioner’s axe hanging over it from the jump. Now, it sounds like they’re going to throw their weight behind new launches to help them be as successful as possible (like this week’s Midnight Marvel titles).

How would that help you as a retailer?

Greg: What would help the absolute most is what they did with Midnight. I can order #2 based on #1 sales. That’s one reason it’s so hard to find a #2 or #3 anywhere. We’re not going all in as retailers on those next issues until we see how #1 sells. With the #2 of Midnight titles being listed after I know how #1 sold, I ordered much more of the second issue than I would have with no sales info, so it actually helps me as a retailer and Marvel as a publisher.

Tony: What impact did this different approach have on last week’s Marvel Midnight launch?

Greg: Well, for one, it simplified things by not having a horde of Marvel books taking up space. It helped spotlight the new line a little better. It also made it look more a uniform and concise line. 

Tony: He also said the comics should lead the MCU not follow it (apparently backed up by Kevin Feige himself). What effect has that “chasing the movies” approach had on the publisher for you?

Greg: A lot of people, myself included, have been disappointed in Marvel’s output lately because of just that. If a book comes out, you know the only reason for it existing is to hype a movie or TV show. And the characters have been changed to match the cinematic universe more. I think the main reason for the initial and continued success of the MCU is that they had those blueprints to make some unique and original content that few viewers had seen before. Now, they’ve changed it so the comics follow the shows, which I just don’t understand. They were doing just fine laying down the basic story beats for decades, but now it seems they don’t have faith in the very thing that made them.

Tony: As a retailer, what change would you suggest to Wacker (or other new Marvel heads Brad Winderbaum or David Abdo)?

Greg: I know it’ll never happen, but chill on the variants. It’s just getting out of control. I used to be a variant chaser. I’d do anything I could to be a completist and get ‘em all, but I just can’t do that anymore. I’ll take home whatever is orderable at the store, but, unless something I don’t have shows up in a collection, I’m good with those. I’ve seen multiple books with well over 100 covers, and nobody is going to get them all. The other thing is event fatigue. We always have multiple events going on. If you have to do events, make them in the summer, like it used to be. When everything is earth shattering and will change the status quo, then it’s no longer special.

Tony: What’s been the most encouraging incremental change so far? 

Greg: Look, I’m sure CB Cebulski is a swell guy if you know him, but getting him in a different position besides what he was in could be the most important of all. I know he was getting a lot thrown at him from the higher ups, but there were so many poor decisions that came about on his watch. I wish him luck in the new endeavors, but I think his time at Marvel has come to a close and we need someone that understands how to fix the mess they’re in.

Tony: What’s something that’s worked from the last seven years with Marvel that you really want to see carry forward?

Greg: I’ve liked the advance copies of books we sometimes get. I think that would be such a great program to expand. Usually it’s a blind bag or a variant, but either way, we get a good look at what we’re going to order. It’s so useful to have a physical copy of something. PDFs are fine, but you don’t get a true sense of what you’re ordering unless it’s in your hand. I look forward to better times ahead with Marvel. I really hope it happens and they get their place back on the board that they should have.

Black Cat Comics is on the web at https://blackcat-comics.com/ and via all the usual social media channels. If you live in or are visiting the Salt Lake City area, you can visit the store at 2261 Highland Dr, Salt Lake City, UT 84106, or call Greg and his team at (801) 461-4228.