Conan Meets Tarzan: Discussing Dynamite’s ‘Fire And Ice’ With Writer Bill Winningham

Bill Winningham is no stranger to fantasy stories, having written the popular Fables. Now he’s taking on quite the assignment: write a prequel to the 1983 cult classic film Fire and Ice, which was created by none other than comics legend Frank Frazetta and innovative animator Ralph Bakshi. In a Comicon exclusive, Winningham discusses seeing the original movie while in college, why writing prequels can be challenging and why funny bits need to be handled seriously.

Tom Smithyman: I’m guessing you are a fan of the original film.

Winningham: You are correct, sir.

Smithyman: Do you remember when you first saw it?

Winningham: I’m not certain on what day, but I saw it in the theater, in its first run, along with some of my TSR buddies (the Dungeons & Dragons people). We talked about it afterwards, over mediocre beer and excellent hot dogs. I recall my first ever exposure to Ralph Bakshi with his Wizards movie. This was back in my college days, in Eugene, Oregon, when I was a doorman at one of the local movie theaters. I recall even then saying that Ralph Bakshi and Frank Frazetta need to get together on something (not that I’m trying to take credit, having wished their collaboration into existence).

Smithyman: What about it has stuck with you since then?

Winningham: Many things. Back then, and to this day, I believe there’s a slight hint of, “I wonder if we could tell a Conan meets Tarzan crossover story?” deep in its DNA. Not enough to constitute an unauthorized use of those characters, but just a bit of the flavor. When Darkwolf and Larn are side by side on the top of the escarpment, throwing enemies off of the rocks, it just smacked of a scene you might see, if the powers-that-be had allowed there to be such a crossover. It’s that type of adventure.

What I’m really saying is Frank Frazetta’s DNA can be found abundantly throughout this film. Other Frazetta archetypes appear in the film, including the trademark Frazetta Panther Girl.

Smithyman: Was it your idea to tell the story before the film?

Winningham: It was among the options I considered in a preliminary series of notes sent to the Bakshi people and the Frazetta Girls, in the very early days of considering what story we might tell. They definitely wanted a prequel and may have raised the idea before I did. So a prequel is what we set out to do.

Smithyman: What challenges does doing a prequel present?

Winningham: Don’t steal ideas and events from the original. This is the challenge of any prequel, the temptation to “get there first” with things that clearly happened for the first time in the original. And you’d be surprised how many prequels of well-known stories get that wrong. For example, Star Trek and the Dune Books were retroactively lessened by the prequels that were rife with “Yeah, we got there first, long before those other guys eventually did,” and with, “No, that surprise in the original is something we knew all along.”

Smithyman: What is it like to step into the shoes of legendary creators like Frank Frazetta?

Winningham: Intimidating. The voice in my head that keeps saying, “Don’t screw this up, boy,” never went away during the entire writing of the series.

Smithyman: And writer Roy Thomas?

Winningham: Him too, but not as intensely, if only because Roy Thomas’s granddaughter never got me on the phone and mentioned, “Talking to you reminds me of talking to my grandfather.” While I adore the compliment, dear Lord, how much pressure does that put on me to get this right?

Smithyman: So it’s fairly intimidating and not just another writing assignment?

Winningham: Asked and answered. The intimidation factor is high. And, this may sound a bit arrogant, but for all of my faults as a writer, there’s never yet been a job that’s “just another writing assignment.” Telling a good story is always a challenge. If it ever stops being so, I’ll quit the business.

Smithyman: You’re well known for the long-running series Fables…

Winningham: Maybe not as much as I was 10 years ago, but sure, let’s say that.

Smithyman: Trust me on this one! Do you see any similarities in that story versus what you are writing for Fire and Ice?

Winningham: Of course. Adventure, heroics, and drama, taken seriously within the context of the situation the characters find themselves in. All of that needs to be in any story I attempt, because that’s the storytelling realm in which I live. And even the funny bits (and I do hope there are funny bits in both Fables and Fire and Ice) need to be handled seriously. Perhaps that seems a contradiction, but it isn’t.

Smithyman: I understand you were introduced to animation director Ralph Bakshi through his film Wizards. Can you tell us that story?

Winningham: I was in college and working part time as a doorman at the local second-run theater (ask your granddad what a second-run theater was). As one of the benefits of that job, we got free passes to every other movie theater in town, and being poor, I took full advantage of that. One day I saw Wizards at one of the theaters and it blew me away. Immediately I began my campaign with my theater manager to get Wizards into our venue, so I could see it every night.

Smithyman: Leonardo Manco provides the artwork for this series. Have you seen his pages yet?

Winningham: I have. As of this writing he’s turned in all of the pages for the first issue, and we’re collectively waiting with bated breath (not baited breath, mind you. We aren’t eating worms) for the first pages for the second issue to come in.

Smithyman: What was your impression of how they tie back to the movie?

Winningham: The pages are marvelous. There’s a reason Sara Frazetta declared Leonardo an honorary Frazetta Girl, which is a rare honor indeed. Seeing these pages, no one will doubt that this series and the film belong together, as parts of the same sweeping saga.

Smithyman: You had a crossover between Batman and Fables character Bigby recently.

Winningham: Yes.

Smithyman: Does this mean we’re going to see some Fire and Ice crossovers as well?

Winningham: Sorry, but no. Even though I purportedly own Fables, DC Entertainment, by virtue of our publishing agreement, controls it. That’s where all of the decision-making power resides, and they tend not to blithely and joyously enter into such agreements. I’d been advocating a Bigby/Batman crossover since the early days of Fables, 20 years ago. Each time I broached the subject, they laughed it off as, “Willingham’s being funny again, with his odd sense of humor we’ll never understand.”

But who knows? If we start asking now, maybe in another 20 years they’ll realize we’re serious. In the meantime, I’ve got too many other projects on my plate, about which we may reveal more later.

Smithyman: We’re looking forward to learning about those soon! And good luck with Fire and Ice, which premieres in August.