State Of The Line: The Batfamily Features Plenty Of Bat But Less Family

It’s a brand new year. Tons of opportunities and possibilities for comics to come in 2024. American politics do their State of the Union addresses at various levels each year, and Tony Thornley and Scott Redmond are doing the same for comics! 

We’ll be looking at a handful of comic book lines from Marvel and DC Comics. Strap on a cape and a cowl, it’s time to check out how things are going for the Batman family of books.

Currently, this line consists of: Batman, Detective Comics, Nightwing, Birds Of Prey, Poison Ivy, Harley Quinn, Batman & Robin, Outsiders, Catwoman, Batman: The Brave And The Bold, Penguin, Batman: Off World, Batman: City Of Madness, Batman ‘89: Echoes, and the dual line balancing Batman/Superman: World’s Finest. Concluded 2023 titles include: Batgirls, Batman Incorporated, Batman Beyond: Neo-Gothic, Joker: The Man Who Stopped Laughing, WildC.A.T.s, Batman: One Bad Day, Tim Drake: Robin, Punchline: The Gotham Game, Lazarus Planet, Batman vs Robin, Batman & Catwoman: Gotham War, The Batman & Scooby-Doo Mysteries.

Scott Redmond: Well Tony, sure is a lot of Bat-related stuff going down at DC, per usual. We’ve got gothic operas, split-personalities, father-son bonding, wars between lovers, eco-horror, off-world fantasy, deep lore stuff, heists, team-ups, multiversal shenanigans, pirate booty, and more stuff than I can actually list out here without becoming an even breathier sentence. 

Kicking off, what are your overall thoughts about the line?

Tony Thornley: We’re going to be talking a lot of comics in this one. More than we will be with any of these other pieces. And you know what? It’s probably the most interesting that we’ll get to talk about… Not the best, but the most interesting.

The Bat-Core:

Scott: Being the big DC Comics linchpin that he is, the pointy-eared vigilante currently has three, that’s right three, flagship/core/mainly solo books. There is the long-running shares the name of the company Detective Comics, followed by the aptly named Batman, and finally the father-son duo adventure Batman And Robin.

Tony: So I think this trio is where the faults of the line are so apparent. I think back to the halcyon days of the Batman line — from about Knightfall through… Maybe just before Batman Incorporated launched? The core titles… if they didn’t feel connected, they at least didn’t feel like they were taking place in three different worlds.

Not so here.

I think we can agree, of the three ‘Tec is the best of the bunch. Ram V’s massive Bat-saga feels epic in a way that a long term Batman story hasn’t since the height of the Morrison run. And even though I’m probably 6 issues behind, I know it’s good. Like all caps GOOD. I need to catch up on it, but I also don’t feel like I needed to for this discussion because I know it’s maintained its quality.

Batman, meanwhile, is at what I feel may be a nadir… but then not as much when you compare it to the lows of the back half of the King run. And Batman & Robin…

I like B&R. I’d even say I like it a lot. But for a title that’s obviously trying to draw the line together, it almost would be better off if it wasn’t. Its efforts to do so are almost making it feel more disjointed and isolated.

Scott: Three drivers at the wheel and they have vastly different ideas about not only what the final destination is, but what methods are best for getting there. As you said, there is a very clear disconnect here. Tonal would be one thing, and fine, as a more action-packed Batman and a more down-to-earth detective-style Batman side by side seem like peanut butter and chocolate. Somehow though they’ve managed to poison that sweet mixture, not in a way that kills but it’s not pleasant. 

I don’t believe we’ve ever seen a divide this vast. If you stripped these books of all publishing and date information and laid them side by side, if someone assumed they were all from different eras I could not and would not blame them. 

I love what Ram V is doing on Detective with all his collaborators. It’s a generational classic in motion. Having it stand fully alone would be honestly fine. Trying to fit that and Batman as a Tom Cruise-esque action star with multiversal multi-personality issues was tough enough. Tossing in a really poorly done war with Catwoman where he mentally and physically abused each of his children/allies makes little to no sense. After all that you expect me to accept a book happening at the same time where he’s playing house and actually remembers and buddies up with his youngest son? 

B&R is the one I’m vastly behind on, but what I have read is like tonal whiplash. It’s trying to bridge the gap but the bridge has holes and gaps and can’t really fit between the two sides of the river. 

Tony: I think Batman & Robin could be the most fun of the three with different art. I mean, I’m fine with deMeo, but it’s so stylistic, that it borders on being hard to read. The Mikel Janin and Nikola Cizmesija issues both read way better. DC clearly wants the three books to satisfy three different audiences, so why not make B&R the mass market appeal book. We’ll see if it finds that balance because I like the book. I might even like it a lot if it gets through its issues.

The Bat-Family:

Scott: For a self-described ‘loner,’ Bats sure has garnered himself quite a large family or group of allies. This would include Nightwing and his Bludhaven adventures, the heists of on-again-off-again partner Catwoman, the high-flying Batgirls, and one of the Batgirls’ new team the Birds of Prey. It also encompasses Batwoman and Batwing’s new non-superhero team the Outsiders, the adventures of the Robins, former adversary turned ally Harley Quinn, and even still current mostly foes Penguin and Poison Ivy. In addition to the copious amount of team-up moments including books meant for just that, The Brave And The Bold or The World’s Finest.

Tony: So I’ll say one thing first that’s brief, and another that warrants longer discussion.

I don’t think World’s Finest is a Bat-title. It’s a Batman/Superman title, sure, and Bruce gets top billing. But of the last year of WF stories, they’ve leaned HEAVILY Superman or Justice League. I think the last WF story that truly felt “Bat” was the Dick Grayson time travel issue. So maybe we’ll talk about it there.

Scott: You make a very solid point about the duo book. Honestly, it’s the one I’m the furthest behind on and I tried to figure out where it would fit since it covers both lines we’re looking at. Makes sense that Waid would lean more towards the Super side of things, given his background when it comes to things DC (I mean the man is writing their other Superman-style character currently). 

Tony: Secondly, this is the year — for the first time since 1994 when Tim Drake’s ongoing Robin series launched — that a Bat-family title did not feel like a sure thing. I mean look at the title line-up going into 2024. The only book of all of these that’s not a villain book (or an anti-hero book) is Nightwing. This is the year that Robin couldn’t even last a year, Batgirls was canceled a year and a half in, and don’t even get me started on WildCATS and Batman Inc.

Twenty-nine years! Sure the DC line has leaned Bat-heavy for pretty much that entire time. But how dire is the industry if Robin and Batgirl can’t sustain their own titles?! Or maybe it’s not the industry as much as some problem within DC themselves?

Scott: Ain’t that just a kick in the butt from a pixie boot-wearing foot. 

It is wild to realize that no matter how much they prop up the Bat family, there seems to be no backing of them in most respects. I’m not privy to the numbers (Tony note: weird how these problems pop up right after there’s no longer any transparency here!) and all the books and won’t pretend I am, but with how many Batman books they sell there isn’t enough in the budget to just let the family titles run even if they aren’t putting up the same numbers?

It really speaks to where the industry is with Marvel and DC specifically where they are chasing only specific highs and certain characters and the creators working on them are getting shortchanged on the regular. I love me some Poison Ivy (one of the best books around on my ledger), but it’s wild to realize that she and Harley Quinn have had longer runs than both current Robins have had recently or a book featuring three awesome Batgirls. 

Tony: And frankly, if any Bat-villain deserves an ongoing as high quality as this, it’s Ivy. She’s way more interesting when she dances on the line between villain and anti-hero. I haven’t read as much of Poison Ivy as I’d like, but when I do read, I always kick myself that I’m not reading more. One of my goals this year is to read this entire series.

 But to the point, Batgirls, I don’t get the cancellation. It was good, all three of the leads are fan favorites, and there are story legs if Cloonan and Conrad reached the end of what they wanted to tell. If it was the planned end, I’m stunned they didn’t have another team on tap, and if it was a cancellation, it doesn’t make much sense.

Tim Drake: Robin though, I get why it failed. Fitzmartin sort of turned the series into her personal Tim fanfic- Bernard wasn’t a well-developed character, much less a love interest, the antagonists were generic and could have been replaced by antagonists Tim had history with, and the setting just didn’t speak to me. The art meanwhile, while good, was such a mismatch for Gotham in general, but even more so for the story being told. Still though, I think it 

WildCATS and Batman Inc I get though. DC is still trying to make in-universe Wildstorm happen, and Batman Inc may have hit a planned end and the sales didn’t warrant an extension. But the next time they try Wildstorm, maybe they need to disconnect it from Gotham.

Scott: Just like fetch, they won’t stop trying to make Wildstorm happen and at this point it’s just kind of painfully sad. That being said, Zealot in Birds Of Prey under Kelly Thompson’s care, actually is working. Imagine that. 

Agreed all around. There is a lot of throwing things at the wall and hoping, and then there are awesome things given no chance to truly live. Trying not to jinx anything because it’s beyond wild that they actually gave Poison Ivy the chance it’s having, and I don’t want to stop reading that any time soon. I imagine that the Harley Quinn book has its fans, but I would not be shocked if that is still going only because the character is having an outside comics blowup moment that keeps extending (funny since she of course debuted outside of comics to begin with).

Tony: That’s the crazy thing about Harley right there. Harley is one of DC’s top four mass media characters. She got a loose film trilogy. Her animated series is still going strong. Hell, she was one of the four DC characters featured in the launch line-up of WB’s brawler Multiversus. I’d go as far as to say she’s probably significantly more popular than her Marvel counterpart, Deadpool. I say she’s top four, but she’s definitely not the fourth!

Scott: Nightwing is the only one being given the real push. It makes sense, but also not since the family is overall so popular. As for Dick’s book, it’s good and fine more often than not, and brilliant other times. A lot of up and down but that is a large part of Tom Taylor as a writer. Funny enough, a couple of years ago before this run that series would have been on the list of ones that weren’t hitting and we should not be shocked if it had been wrapped up. 

Basically, it proves the point that if they give the right runway and focus, there is no reason something like Batgirls should not still be going. There are quite a few bigger-named current creators working in the DC space who I guarantee would have leapt at the chance if Cloonan & Conrad were actually done (but it really feels like they still had tons more to say). 

The Bat-Minis:

Scott: Let’s be real, if you like Batman, there isn’t a shortage of titles to satisfy any craving. From minis that are in continuity romps to those that are close but are murky to those taking place in whole other dimensions or time periods. If there is a flavor of Bat someone wants it’s likely being published, was published, or will be published soon. 

Tony: Oh for sure. This is where my knowledge of the line is weakest too. I’m not a big Bat-guy. It wasn’t until the Snyder run I even started to like Batman stories, and the Tynion run was the run that made me finally say “oh I’m a Bat-fan.” But I’m still not enough of a fan to get into one of these minis unless it really grabs me.

That’s a long-winded way of saying the only Bat-mini I read this year was Batman Vs. Robin. Honestly, I’m not feeling like I’m missing out. Maybe if I had DC Universe Infinite I might have read more?

Scott: Right there with you actually. And as someone who does have DC Universe Infinite, not sure the urge will grow any to dive deeper. I’ve yet to touch a lot of stuff there, especially the off to the side let’s just throw Batman into a what-if style minis. 

We all know they say that too much of something isn’t always a good thing, and I think that Batman is proof of this. Some Batman, when done right, is pretty darn awesome. A bit more can be still good but becomes a bit muddled. Too much Batman and it just feels messy. One of the strengths and weaknesses of the character is how malleable he has become. There are numerous versions of the character, just in the modern age alone, that all work and have fans. From the god-like know-it-all hero to the gritty street detective and everything in between. 

Trying to tap all of that at once, flooding the market with those books (including taking up ¾ of the Black Label line most of the time), just bogs everything down. Sure they still sell, that’s why DC keeps throwing more and more out there, but at what cost? A watered-down shadow of a character who has good bursts here or there but a lot of stuff that falls into the middle and will be promptly forgotten. 

Tony: Oh and it’s not just Black Label. Earlier this past year DC announced new Elseworlds for the first time in twenty years, and half of the announced titles are Batman. Now, if one is interesting, I’ll snag it. I just picked up the collection of the first volume of the Batman Beyond stories Lanzing and Kelly are writing for example. But there are so many that most of them are just noise.

Like Batman: Off-World was announced as Jason Aaron’s big return to DC… And all I’ve heard is crickets. I don’t think I’ve even seen it covered by Bat-Chat over at ComicsXF.

Oh, but the exception is Bat-Scoob. Dear DC- Publish Bat-Scoob forever.

Scott: I need to check Bat-Scoob out, I just keep seeing people gushing about it everywhere I look. 

Yeah, it’s wild how many of these minis come in loudly for announcement and then we hear not a single thing again. Not even just a typical “No one I see online is talking about it” situation either. Not even the company pushes them once they actually come out. It’s like they are enamored with the glitz and glamor that comes with being the focus for that moment of announcement. Once it fades, well they have to seek the next hit. 

The Wrap-Up:

Scott: Before we slink back into the night shadows like the Batman himself, let us bring this to a solid conclusion. It’s a perfect time to do a bit of reflection. First off, now that we’ve really gone deep into the line, what are your final overall thoughts or feelings about the 2023 Batline? Secondly, is there anything you are hoping to see or are already excited for Bat-wise for 2024?

Tony: I think the core has a real opportunity to pull it together. Zdarsky’s run is finally starting to feel like he’s telling the story he wants to tell, and the art is firing on all cylinders. Ram’s run meanwhile is going to end up an all-time great if he sticks the landing (he will). Even Williamson, for all the faults of Batman & Robin, is just on the edge of something very fun.

For the secondary titles, I suspect it’s a larger industry problem, not anything specific to those titles. I’m hearing a lot of anecdotal discussion about burnout amongst readers, so it might just come down to that.

Scott: Ram’s run is what keeps me going, but I’m coming around some on Batman compared to where I began so that is surely something. I hope that the secondary titles find more space and if there is burnout, they don’t react by just giving us more Batman-only stuff. Perhaps it’s time for another Bat-family run à la the James Tynion era Detective Comics run, so at least the characters have a regular home. 

Either way, it sounds like we got quite a bit ahead of us and it’ll be interesting to see where we find ourselves and the line a year from now!